Ah, bullshit. Nobody RULES the world. Is that not the biggest rationalization possible? MEN RULE THE WORLD. Like we're all sitting around on thrones with fucking tridents and shit.
Look, terrible shit happens to everybody. Some get it worse than others. But each individual human being suffers or has known great suffering. We all get shat on at some point. But when it happens, I think we're less likely to blame the individual who made the decision to fuck us over. We blame the group(s) that individual "belongs" to.
I'm an individual person. I share no burden, shame, guilt, advantages, heritage, or culture with any other group. I'm a white guy. That's just how I was born.
When people think in collectives, that's when we have problems. Men, Women, Blacks, Whites, Republicans, Democrats, Christians, Atheists, Communists, Feminists, Muslims, Fat People, Skinny People, Cub fans, Yankee fans, Vegans, Hunters, Teens, Adults, Blue Collar, White Collar, whatever.
Everybody wants to join a group because it makes them feel safe. Like they belong to something. And they have special handshakes and talking points and clothes and hats and logos. It's why gangs are appealing. You said snark was Roman Catholic? That's one of the biggest, most powerful fucking gangs in the world.
I'm saying, what if we didn't join groups? What if you just played the hand you were dealt as best you can and put the onus of your life on nobody but your own shoulders? What the fuck ever happened to individual responsibility?
There are no groups, man. A group is just a collection of individuals. So is a corporation. Just individuals.
If somebody does something horrible to me, I'm gonna blame that person. Based on that person's individual character and actions as they related to me in some incident, I'm gonna hate THAT PERSON. Not the fucking gender, nationality, race, neighborhood, or religion.
I'm sick of people blaming a big group for everything. And then hating everybody THEY think belongs in that group. And now I'm a part of a group that gets victimized x% of the time by your group, so fuck you.
THERE ARE NO GROUPS. It's just you. You're on your own. Your life is a consequence of choices YOU MADE. Now shut up and deal with it and stop blaming illusions. It's just a fairy tale you tell yourself about why you can't have what you want.
Men don't rule the world. I'm a man; I don't rule shit. I rule my own life. That's it. Nobody's in charge. Go get what you want, or better yet DON'T, but can we stop with all the bullshit?
I challenge you to figure out what gang you're a part of and ask yourself why you're a member of it. What does it do for you? How does it affect your outlook? What's it costing you? And are you a member of it because you're afraid to stand alone?
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Like we're all sitting around on thrones with fucking tridents and shit.
Funny that you imagine that people in power look like Poseidon. Unfortunately, they look more like Cheney.
The thing is, when men are disproportionately in positions where they make the rules - the legislature, the executive, the judicial, and the boardroom - then one can correctly say that men are the rulers. Whether you're the man on the throne or not doesn't make that any less true, nor does it make you any less a beneficiary of some of those rules. You can whine and say you're not getting any of the benefits, but you are; even if you did decide not to be born the son of a very wealthy family with inside tracks to the halls of power and more options to decide from than the average Joe. You can say you're a man alone, but you're not; you're a product of your family, the culture you immerse yourself in, and the one that has been forced upon you all the waking hours of your entire life through books, tv, advertising, film, etc. Right or wrong, though, each culture has been shaped by man hands.
Everybody wants to join a group because it makes them feel safe. Like they belong to something.
And you are a part of all kinds of groups, whether you like it or not. You've got your family group, your friends group, your age group, gender, socio-economic, blah blah blah. It's comical to deny it, since you clearly say this is what everyone “wants to” do. Not only is it genetically programmed for species survival, it’s the only practical way to make your way in this crowded world – safety in numbers sorta thing. Unfortunately, the social contract wasn’t good enough for some people – which brings us to religion, or more aptly, the purveyors of religion, another group run almost entirely by men, by the way.
It’s funny that you start out by being pissed that some men can be blamed for things as a group, then you single out snark’s Roman Catholic affiliation as a “gang.” I blame the Church for a lot of the tradition of demonizing women that persists today, but I don’t blame individuals for the things done by the institution they find fellowship with. Sure, I don’t believe in supernatural beings, but I know spirituality is an integral part of the human condition, and that people don’t go to a church so much for what the guy in the pulpit has to say, or what the corporation wants you to believe, they’re there to interact with members of their community – something I see as very valuable even if I don’t indulge in it. It’s one reason why the whole Wright controversy with Obama wasn’t a blip on my radar. Who cares? He was interacting with his community, which is something you’d expect from a citizen, and even more so with a budding politician.
I'm sick of people blaming a big group for everything. And then hating everybody THEY think belongs in that group.
Yeah, me, too.
That's why I never bothered to register Democrat.
And I'm a recovering Catholic.
And I'm a recovering Catholic.
There's hope for you yet!
Though, for pure aesthetic value, you can't beat the Catholic Mass.
From a conspiracy theorist (heh) point of view, I think the Church probably has the most accurate account of world history in their archives, which is why we'll never get to see all of it. I'm totally enamoured of Vatican intrigue!
The thing is, when men are disproportionately in positions where they make the rules - the legislature, the executive, the judicial, and the boardroom
Okay, the first three positions imply political appointment. Everybody's been able to vote, regardless of gender, since 1920. Why would these offices still be held predominantly by men? Or could it be that they aren't and this is just an urban myth? I haven't done the research. But still, it's a valid question.
And you are a part of all kinds of groups, whether you like it or not. You've got your family group, your friends group, your age group, gender, socio-economic, blah blah blah.
No, those are the groups to which other people can ascribe me. And even if I technically do belong to them, even when they're not accidents of birth, they still say nothing about me as an individual and therefore no conclusions can be made based on them. None of these things dictate what I think or what I'm going to do in any given situation.
Not only is it genetically programmed for species survival
I don't believe in genetic programming when it comes to matter of character. I can be genetically predisposed to have dangling ear lobes instead of attached ear lobes. And a good or bad hair line. Physical features.
it’s the only practical way to make your way in this crowded world – safety in numbers sorta thing.
Which is exactly what I'm railing against. The illusion that we need safety and that it can be found in numbers. This creates groups, and groups fight. Groups generalize and hate based on group mentality. Mob mentality.
It’s funny that you start out by being pissed that some men can be blamed for things as a group, then you single out snark’s Roman Catholic affiliation as a “gang.”
The Roman Catholic Church IS a gang. It's a collective, a very powerful one, that people choose to belong to because they think there's safety in numbers. They have their own territory, they wield great influence with fear of (eternal) punishment if you don't pay up (repent)...
How is the Catholic Church NOT a protection racket? How is it NOT a gang? How much cruelty and violence has been perpetrated in the name of that Church, as much as any other?
It's like the mafia. The Pope is the Godfather and the bishops and cardinals are made men. Isn't that what The Godfather Part III was all about?
they’re there to interact with members of their community
Fuck the community too. What's the community? Is it my PART of town, or the whole town? Nobody ever invited me to be part of it. I don't even know most of my neighbors. They're just people living in houses. And they're all made out of ticky tacky and they all look just the same.
But you group enough of them together and now you've got a Community. And people will tell you to "get involved" in the Community and what's good or bad for the Community.
Usually when people start talking in terms of Community, it's because they're taking a stand, as a group, against some other group that is a threat to the Community. Like the Blacks or the Rednecks or the College Students. Or the other gangs. "A blight on our community!"
Fuck safety in numbers. I'll take 'em all on.
And snark, I mean no disrespect. You being a Catholic, recovering or not, is your thing. I don't make any assumptions about you based on knowing that.
How can I say that? Because I don't believe in fucking groups!
"I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me."
You know what people mean when they say Society or Community or Nation? They usually mean "everybody but you."
So what else ya got? You're all confounded by my infallible logic and your minds are blown. I get that and it's groovy.
No offense taken MV. I didn't chose to be born into a Catholic family. Hell, I wasn't even a consenting adult when I supposedly "chose" Catholicism at my Confirmation (what do 13 year olds know?). You're right, a protection racket is about the best way to describe it.
I'm not as militantly "anti-group" as you but I get your point. Hell, my family is a study in group dilution. The best thing I can say for globalization is there'' be one less reason for humans to hate on each other when they're all beige.
LOL!! We're all gonna be beige?? Shit. I didn't hear about that.
But then you'll have the Eggshell versus the Ecru. And the Taupe, always causing problems. Fuckin' Taupe. They get the really big dicks and can jump high. The Eggshell are drunk all the time and the Ecru are constantly cheating on their wives. You know, cuz they're short and they have more to prove.
I haven't done the research. But still, it's a valid question.
Not if you'd done the research, it isn't.
None of these things dictate what I think or what I'm going to do in any given situation.
A perfect example of why history repeats itself.
How is the Catholic Church NOT a protection racket?
Who was actually making this argument?
This creates groups, and groups fight.
And diplomacy is born! Necessity, once more, becomes the mother of invention.
Nobody ever invited me to be part of it.
As a lone wolf, why do you care anyhow? I understand, though; it was only recently that I realized there are lots of communities I could be part of, if I'd only make the effort. I choose not to make the effort. But that doesn't mean that I don't find communities valuable. F'rinstance, the time our local well had to be tested for parasites and be upgraded. It was an immediate health issue. I was glad there were people in the know who had the wherewithall to meet and vote on an upgrade. Which kept us independent of city water. Sigh. That was a great neighborhood. Rural enough to see every star in the sky, and close knit enough to feel safe. As a young mother with li'l kids, it made a frikkin' difference.
Men do, always have, and always will rule the world. Look at what just happened when a woman tried to run for president. Look at the bullshit being hurled at Nancy Pelosi. Look at sexual harassment in the workplace, pornography, women in music or movies....this is just too obvious of a fact to discuss.
To see yourself as an individual is great. If you feel comfortable in your own skin, are happy with your life, don't have to join the fraternity, the softball team, etc., that's great.
I don't have a problem with collectives. Like-minded people who form a group can get things done. The Civil Rights Movement, the Suffrage Movement, Unions, Gay Rights parades, NOW, NAACP, charity organizations, on and on. Collectives are healthy, and I would say necessary, for humans and most animals. I've tried being the shut-in. It won't work for very long.
Are there those who feel safety in crowds? Sure. Cults, Nazis, etc. show the dark side of groups that prey on the insecurities of the individual. Religions are masters at this, as you point out.
But...you're saying a person can't be a Democrat or a Cubs fan or a fat person and not still feel a sense of individual responsibility? I don't get it. A more interesting thesis would be one examining those who automatically judge someone based on the groups they belong to. You address this, yeah. Of course one should judge the individual. Someone shouldn't even judge me based on my eyeshadow, lack of body hair, piercings, and Marilyn Manson tee. They should get to know me before they judge. This is obvious.
I don't get your deal about blaming illusions instead of yourself. I'm lost. You're almost saying because one is a certain gender or skin color or religion, and they don't succeed at something, they need to blame themselves. I don't know, Man. It's like the elementary school teacher who tells kids, "You can be anything you want to be. You could be the first female hindu president from Brooklyn." Well, no, that kid ain't gonna get there. Neither is the farmer's daughter (or son) a few miles out of town. The corridors of power in this country are strolled only with fistfuls of money. That's really the important thing in today's America, those with a shitload of money and the rest of us. Powerful corporations and the family-owned, independent store. Viacom vs. local tv, if those channels even exist. The difference between the salary of the dude in the corporate boardroom and the dude working the phones or on the assembly line is like, what, 250%?
Rugged individualism, I get it. I just think in the reality of this country, one can only take it so far. Everyone's lumped into a group at a really early age. Graduation day at the local high school. The kid from the wealthy family goes to medical or law school. The kid from the other side of the tracks whose mom and dad live paycheck to paycheck heads to the factory. That's not an illusion. An illusion is you saying men don't rule the world when a guy and girl doing the same job don't make anywhere close to the same amount of money.
Dude.
Not if you'd done the research, it isn't.
How'm I gonna do the research on how many men versus women have been elected to public office in the past 88 years? How is anybody? How does anybody know? All you can do is make an assumption.
People assume that men (with money) hold all the positions of power in the world. Do we know this for a fact? Or is this just how we see the world?
From my own personal experience, we had a female mayor last time I checked, and where I work all the top power is held by a woman and the women she socializes with. They go to exclusive spas together. It's like The Boy's Club you'd assume would be there, only it's women.
If you cross her or her friends, you will never get promoted. I've seen this first hand. In my division, we have more female directors than male. The manager of the area I work most closely with is a woman. When I started in IT, my first manager was a woman. I worked for a woman before her and a woman before that. When I was an underwriter, all the senior underwriters were women.
That's the only "boardroom" I've seen. As far as I know from personal experience, the boardroom is ruled by women.
None of these things dictate what I think or what I'm going to do in any given situation.
A perfect example of why history repeats itself.
Does this mean... what DOES this mean? History repeats itself because people don't predict the behavior and actions of others based on stereotypes?
As a lone wolf, why do you care anyhow?
I don't, but according to group-think, because I bought a house I wanted at a good price, this makes me part of something called a Community.
I didn't choose to join anything, and I didn't, but somehow I belong to this group. I'm just curious when that happened.
Look at what just happened when a woman tried to run for president.
Yeah, she got pretty fucking close to winning it. Is this the legacy of Hillary? She lost because she was brutalized by the male-dominated powers that be?
She lost because people think Obama is some kind of second coming of Abraham Lincoln or Baby Jesus or whatever the fuck they think. Not because Hillary's a woman.
So if Hillary had won, it would be a great triumph for women, but since she came in second, it's just another indication that women can never succeed in this male dominated world?
That's pretty black and white.
Look at sexual harassment in the workplace, pornography, women in music or movies....this is just too obvious of a fact to discuss.
Too obvious to question? Nothing is too obvious to question. Especially the things people take as too obvious to question.
Sexual harassment in the workplace:
In Fiscal Year 2007, EEOC received 12,510 charges of sexual harassment. 16.0% of those charges were filed by males. (http://www.eeoc.gov/types/sexual_harassment.html)
Again, that's a small percentage, but how many men would actually report being sexually harassed by a female superior? "Everybody's gonna think I'm a pussy."
So is it possible the number is higher than 16%?
Pornography? Women in movies and music? C'mon. Are we really gonna pretend that Jenna Jameson, Halle Berry, and Madonna are lacking a sense of empowerment? Are they victims?
Are they forced to use their sex appeal to get roles or gigs? Is that what Norah Jones does? Meryl Streep?
But...you're saying a person can't be a Democrat or a Cubs fan or a fat person and not still feel a sense of individual responsibility?
They CAN feel a sense of individuality. They choose not to. Because it makes things easier when you have a big fat group to blame for your problems.
You know what I'm talking about. Everybody does it. I'm questioning why.
I think it's because as long as we can be trained, prepped and sorted into this group and that group, then we'll always be divided. The irony is if we all thought for ourselves, we'd realize we're all the same.
My "thesis" is that groups keep us divided, in conflict, in a never ending us versus them mentality that keeps us from truly coming together as one people.
"Diversity" is the worst word in the English language.
Further, these group-think ideas enable us to blame something else for our lot in life. Something bigger than us; something we can't control.
We cling to these ideas. Nobody ever gets out of this neighborhood. A woman can't get ahead in the boy's club. All men are rapists who hate women. My God is the only true God.
None of these things are true or provable. Exceptions happen every day. They're just ideas. Where do we get them? From "Society"? From our "Family"? "Community"? "Religion"?
This is all learned behavior. I'm saying UN-learn it.
You can take a bunch of toddlers, boys and girls, black, white, yellow, brown, blue, green, whatever. Put 'em in a sandbox and they'll play together forever.
But then we get them home and teach them this shit. Or they get it from other kids with stupid parents. Or they get it from worthless magazines or shitty TV shows or idiot websites. Someone teaches them to think in collectives and that breeds ignorance. And ignorance breeds fear which breeds hate.
Collectives are healthy, and I would say necessary, for humans and most animals
Really? How'd it work out for the Jews? How's it working for the Infidels invading Afghanistan? The first sniper who gets a look at Chelsea, is he gonna see her courage, her determination, her sense of humor?
No. Because his Collective taught him that she's 1) An infidel (collective) and 2) A woman (another collective)
I'm on to something here. World peace? The end of hate? Break down the fucking groups and let's treat each other like equals. Let's stop bullshitting each other, at the very least.
I stand by my post over at TLC that a woman will never be elected president, at least in our lifetimes. No, she was not treated equally by the powers-that-be, including the media, and going all the way down to the liberal internets.
You imply workplace sexual harassment goes both ways, in perhaps equal percentages. Wha?
There's a lot of exploitation that goes on in the seedy, lower levels of porn. Look up what the biggest male movie stars make compared with the biggest females. There's always been a stigma women rockers have had to overcome in a male-dominated world. I was thinking rock music 'cause that's really the only genre I know much about, I should've been more clear.
You say the fat guy should blame the fat group for his problems, but isn't it how others have been brought up to view the fat guy, the black, the factory worker, etc.? Isn't it prejudice we're talking about, a rush to judgement? Kids should be taught to not judge a person by the color of his skin, but until that magical, mystical moment happens when we all get along as one, people who experience prejudice have it in their best interests to associate with other, similar people who share the same experience. I suffer from mental illness, mainly manic depression. I'm more comfortable talking about it with others who are in the same boat. We speak a very particular, different language that is not easily understood by healthy people. I also, luckily enough, have a substance abuse problem, and sometimes it's nice to attend an AA meeting, just to listen and realize there's others just as fucked up as I am. It's comforting, one really does feel strength in numbers. I certainly don't blame AA for my problems. I wouldn't blame a mental illness workshop for my problems. At my best, I take responsibility for my problems, and try my best to deal with them.
As far as unlearning prejudices, of course I agree with you. Some of us overcome our upbringing and reach a level of maturity and experience where we realize people of all colors should be treated equally. I think what you're talking about is ending prejudice, and certainly we should all try to be cool to one another whatever our differences, but to pretend the differences don't exist isn't helping anything. We need to learn MORE about our differences, our cultures, in striving to end hate, like you yearn for. The people of the Middle East hate us because we've been occupying their holy lands for years, going back to at least Reagan, maybe even the 70's, I honestly don't know. We didn't understand and pissed on their culture.
I don't even wanna touch the Jewish comment, I'm not even gonna guess what you meant there. Chelsea? Man, that's scary, but a sniper would be making a political statement largely based on her parents' ideals, wouldn't he?
I don't know, Man, it's not like there's anything to really disagree with here, I love John Lennon's song as much as you do, but I think you're looking at it in a strange way, like you're blaming the victims for not taking more responsibility for their own lives. One way they do that is to organize with each other and mobilize in an effort to at least try and change society's discriminatory legal structures. Changing the way people think about one another is gonna be a whole nother deal. That's Jesus territory (Christ, not Shuttlesworth) or his little brother, Barack.
You guys are to heavy for me.
Not that I'm putting you in a group or anything...
How'm I gonna do the research on how many men versus women have been elected to public office in the past 88 years? How is anybody? How does anybody know? All you can do is make an assumption.
I'm gonna assume you've never heard of google, because I found this on my first try.
Since 1917, when Representative Jeannette Rankin of Montana became the first woman to serve in Congress, 245 more women have served as U.S. Representatives or Senators.
Seems like a lot, but that's not much added up over almost a hundred years.
While the partisan composition of the Congress is fairly close to that of the electorate, there are larger disparities between the Congress and the general citizenry in term of sex and race. In the House, there are currently 365 men and 70 women. In the Senate, there are 16 women and 84 men.
So, even in our enlightened times, women, who make up a little over half the population of the US, are significantly under-represented in our own government by almost 5-1. Around the world there are many countries more enlightened, but still the majority of leadership positions, especially of influential countries are men.
Anyhow, we can trade personal anecdotes about mean women in power, but they don't represent the statistical truth. Men pretty much rule the world.
History repeats itself because people don't predict the behavior and actions of others based on stereotypes?
You said earlier "None of these things dictate what I think or what I'm going to do in any given situation," about the groups you technically belong to, and I disagree. Those influences on your life, just like the cultural influences on the lives of people in other countries can, to some extent, be predictive of future behavior, whether you like it or not. In fact, knowing you're a libertarian, I predicted pretty much all of the arguments you presented here. I was talking with a friend last night and told her about your post, and we agreed (predicted) that it would be useless to try to engage because not only could we see what arguments were coming from you, but from experience of other libertarians, we knew you'd pooh-pooh every point with anecdotal evidence. How'd we do?
History repeats itself when people fail to look at the past and take into account past behaviors, cultural dictates, etc. The best example of this is Afghanistan. The entire world predicted what would happen there, what always happens there. Which did happen there when we tried it. History repeated itself because the ruling men decided to ignore the past and try their hands at nation building. Idiots.
As for being the lone wolf, MV, didn't you just say this in the previous thread?
Every time somebody gives props to the ACLU (of which I am a member), I think of the speech in The American President.
You shore did! Oh wait - remember this one?
In the real world, I’m a supporter of many animal rights organizations. PETA, Animal Legal Defense Fund, ASPCA, the Humane Society, etc.
That's a group, innit? Hmmm.
In Fiscal Year 2007, EEOC received 12,510 charges of sexual harassment...
Again, that's a small percentage, but how many men would actually report being sexually harassed by a female superior?
Not sure why you bring this up, I'm assuming you're insinuating that the incidence is higher, but men don't report it because it would unman them. By the same token, couldn't many more women not report it for fear of losing their jobs and reputations? Or maybe those men were trying to make a point by filing? Or maybe these statistics don't have anything to do with the argument at hand and you're just throwing out all the info you can to "prove" that women can abuse power just like men, so men really don't rule the world? Silly rabbit!
I stand by my post over at TLC that a woman will never be elected president, at least in our lifetimes
If McCain wins, you don't think she'll run again in four years? Hellz yeah.
Maybe she didn't get a fair shake. I didn't follow the talking heads closely enough. Maybe the MSM really did cock block Hillary. Maybe the whole thing will be looked back on as Cockblockergate. But she's done some dubious shit and people don't like her. HER. Not the fact that she's a woman. That's what I think.
You imply workplace sexual harassment goes both ways, in perhaps equal percentages. Wha?
Well, the stat proves it DOES go both ways, but I didn't say equal percentages. I think it's prolly higher than 16% because men are taught that it's gay to report such a thing. I'm saying we don't really know.
There's a lot of exploitation that goes on in the seedy, lower levels of porn.
Well, yeah. In some parts of the world women are sold off as wives too. But maybe there's a kid or an addiction to support and there's no way out and they find they can make some money fucking on camera. Some people shovel shit for a living. Not that it's the same thing. So don't support seedy porn. Support quality porn with budgets and AIDS tests and plots. You ever listen to Katie Morgan talk? She has great sex and gets paid a ton of money. I support THAT kind of porn. That's the porn that gets the MV Seal of Approval.
You say the fat guy should blame the fat group for his problems
No, I'm saying the fat guy joins the Fat People group so they can blame OTHER groups for their problems. Society made us fat. Or maybe it was the FDA or TV commercials or something else. Nobody blames their OWN group. They pile up and blame OTHER groups.
This is crucial to understanding the point I'm circling. 8)
And I'm all for finding like-minded INDIVIDUALS and sharing a moment. There's great comfort in that. I've done the same with my tinnitus. But if somebody starts a Tinnitus Sufferers Group and starts selling shirts and stupid fucking plastic wristbands that say QUIET STRONG, I'm not gonna buy one.
I'm cool with people one on one, but I don't wanna join any clubs.
but to pretend the differences don't exist isn't helping anything
Well, since the feel good days of the late 20th century, we've been acknowledging the fuck out of our differences. Isn't that what the Diversity movement is all about?
How's THAT working out for us? Are we making any progress?
but I think you're looking at it in a strange way, like you're blaming the victims for not taking more responsibility for their own lives.
Okay, lemme rephrase that. No, actually I like it just like that. When we join groups looking for comfort, we end up identifying a little too much with the group's cause.
I could easily join the Tinnitus Sufferers group. I'd sport the hat and maybe it would even do some good, like people might notice a bunch of us and spread the word about a shitty condition.
But then I feel like feeling sorry for myself. I'm a Sufferer. And I don't knock feeling sorry for yourself. I'm actually a big fan. But I don't really get anything done when I'm in that state.
In the House, there are currently 365 men and 70 women. In the Senate, there are 16 women and 84 men.
Okay. I don't know why that is. People don't vote for women? Women don't vote for women? What. Women are the majority of the population. Why aren't they rocking the vote for other women?
Is there some Man Law from Man World that says women can't run for office or can't vote for other women who ARE running for office?
I was talking with a friend last night and told her about your post, and we agreed (predicted) that it would be useless to try to engage because not only could we see what arguments were coming from you, but from experience of other libertarians, we knew you'd pooh-pooh every point with anecdotal evidence. How'd we do?
Jeez. Aside from being really patronizing and mean? I dunno. You'd have to tell me.
Jeff and I just had an aside on this -- I'm totally in the spirit of light-hearted, stimulating conversation. I'm not even sure what my point is, but yeah it's coming around to the individual versus collective argument that Ayn Rand wrote about, which influenced the Libertarian party.
I believe in individual freedom. Standing alone as an individual inspires me. I guess you could say that makes me a member of a group of Individualists, but that's one of those topical wormholes that breaks down the whole system.
Like how saying "everybody's special" means that nobody is special.
In the real world, I’m a supporter of many animal rights organizations. PETA, Animal Legal Defense Fund, ASPCA, the Humane Society, etc.
Yeah, I've donated money to them. And the ACLU. I too get caught up in group-think sometimes. That's not a good idea. I don't know anything about the people who run these groups or how effectively they handle my measly contribution.
I get a warm fuzzy thinking there's a bunch of people out there trying to help animals. Now that I think about it, I should've bought an extra bag of dog food and dropped it off at the shelter. I should go volunteer to walk a dog, next time I feel like getting involved.
As it is, I prolly gave $20 to one of those groups and they send me thousands of free address labels, which is cool. I can't believe I actually BOUGHT address labels one time.
I'm with Snark, this has run its course, especially like Coyote pointed out, you're a Libertarian/Humanist (is that the Ayn Rand thing, is that what it's called?) and she's right, your arguments are all coming from that mindset.
It was a good riff on "Imagine", an interesting post, but got a little wacky there. Don't worry, we're here to reel you back in when you get nuts.
Or maybe these statistics don't have anything to do with the argument at hand and you're just throwing out all the info you can to "prove" that women can abuse power just like men, so men really don't rule the world? Silly rabbit!
What I'm doing is questioning these commonly held beliefs. I'm not jumping to conclusions about the outcome. I'm just questioning.
Jeff and I disagree about this all the time. He believes homeless people are disenfranchised and mentally ill and we, as the richest nation on earth, should do everything we can for them.
I say fuck 'em.
It's a point of some contention.
You say men rule the world. I look around me and most of the men I know don't even rule their free time because they're always kowtowing to their wives. And I go, "Hmm." And then I stroke my bearded chin, silently reflecting.
I'm with Snark, this has run its course, especially like Coyote pointed out, you're a Libertarian/Humanist (is that the Ayn Rand thing, is that what it's called?) and she's right, your arguments are all coming from that mindset.
Okay, but I want credit for being the first person to say the MSM cock blocked Hillary's presidency. Cuz it's fresh and colorful.
I feel like I just got filed away as Libertarian-Objectivist-Lizard Brain and you guys slammed the drawer. So it behooves me to point out that I am, in fact, a man of some contradiction.
I am not an Ayn Rand follower -- an Objectivist. I agree with them on many points, like the individual as hero and atheism. But I can't belong to that club because they completely rule out spirituality. They call it Mysticism.
I believe in intuition as the sixth evolutionary sense. But beyond that, I think reality is not exactly what we think it is. It might be a hologram, there might be multiple dimensions, time might be circular -- this shit fascinates me. Objectivists would say what you'd say right now. He's loco. He's muy loco en la cabeza. What makes me think he won't cut me?
So I read a lot and get ideas from different places, and this conversation and others like it, with people I adore and respect, helps me incorporate all the crazy shit in my head into something that's taking shape as a philosophy that could give me a sense of... something. Like there's a point to all the bullshit. There's meaning to it all. Or at least a way to get through it.
I wasn't trying to be mean, MV, sorry if it appeared that way - and my friend doesn't have a mean bone in her body. But we've had these discussions before with others (had classes on these subjects, did research papers on this stuff) and we've earned the right to roll our eyes. I know you're unique in every way, but your arguments are same old, same old. Groups suck until you need them. Community sucks until you need them. Victims are responsible for their own victimization. Why should I help others when no one helps me? Come on. It's the mindset of a sullen 16 year old, time to grow up!
Also, sorry, but you're like the 10th person I've seen who said Hillary was cockblocked.
I look around me and most of the men I know don't even rule their free time because they're always kowtowing to their wives.
For someone who doesn't give a shit about other people, you sure do a lot of watching how they live! As for those men who kowtow, isn't that their personal decision? I can't help it if all your friends married their moms, and now they won't play with you! *smirk*
I understand your fascination with the puppetmasters; I tend towards the parallel universe theories when I think about that stuff. It makes for good movies, too! And I'm glad you're looking for new ideas, that's the only way to keep your own ideas from turning to circular logic. You're all over the map, there, darlin', but at least you're trying to pull it together!
Also, you haven't been filed away, even if there are some subjects where your opinions are predictable due to your libertarian bent. Those beliefs aren't the full definition of you as a person, though. If it were, I prolly wouldn't be here. Nor would you, I suspect!
All you need is love. Bwah bwah bwah bwah bwah.
MV is at a screening of "The Dark Knight" as I write this. Color me jealous.
Only an hour and a half until Happy Hour, though.
That twerp! I want to see that this weekend. But thanks for letting me know, I thought I got him pissed at me!
Suddenly my dance card is filling up - I've got one friend with an extra Los Lobos ticket for a concert in the park and another friend has an extra NIN ticket next weekend. Decisions, decisions.
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